EPISODE 7:
Bali Leasehold vs. Freehold!

00:00
Hey Bali Business Club here we go again. We’re sitting with, standing, this time, with Omri Ben canaan, the one and only. And today we’re talking about freehold and leasehold, because it’s something you must get asked all the time. You and I do. Always. Yeah. But it’s a very common question. How it works, where it works, in what situation, what environment, Bali, Indonesia, yeah, how it all fits together and which is best where So you’re the guy with the experience. You tell me and everybody else and yeah, let’s go.
00:34
Leasehold Freehold. Hi everyone, thank you, Gawain. Yeah, you’re right, this is a question I’m asked constantly. And what’s great about doing this podcast is that it’s gonna save so much of my time. Now I can just say, click here, show the answer, and I’ll spend half an hour explaining to everyone. So it’s not gonna be a long podcast. We’re gonna talk about the differences, very briefly about the differences between freehold and leasehold. If you’re interested in knowing more about the technicalities of what’s a freehold,
01:09
what’s a leasehold, what are the taxes, pertaining to one, the buying condition, purchasing condition, and so on and so forth, you can click on the link below. And it has podcasts with it with Ibu Semilir Susilar our notary, and lots of great insights on all those legalities that I’m not going to address now. So, okay, let’s dive right in. Let’s kick it off, yeah? All right, so, quickly, let’s talk stats, okay? So this is something that I didn’t know up until recently, and we learned that, you and
01:53
I, from our friend at Reid, I never know what it meant to you, Reid, Reid, R-E-I-D, which means real info dot ID, I believe, yeah? And those are the guys doing a bunch of stats on real estate in Bali. They have the ambition to cover all of Indonesia but right now, it’s very, very focused on Bali. I would recommend to check their websites. Lots of great stats, from Canggu, on Uluwatu, on every area, most of the areas in Bali, for holiday rentals, for real estate, plan for sale, leave down the house.
02:31
I think it sounds like advertising. (laughing) We’ve done two shout outs arts to them, actually. We’re not even paid to to talk about them but we love them that much. Anyway, okay, so, they taught us, and this is coming from them, that the volume of leasehold that the volume of leasehold versus freehold in Bali was 80-20. So, 20% of all transaction deals in Bali are freehold versus 80% leasehold, and that’s Indonesian and foreign combined, okay, foreign combined. So, there’s a tremendous amount of leasehold,
03:11
way bigger than freehold transactions, but there is something to think about when people are deciding whether they want to invest in a property that is going to be freehold or whether it’s going to be leasehold. This is something to think about in terms of when it’s time to sell, to liquidate your assets, whether it’s built or unbuilt or whatever. You have to think that there’s only 20% of the market that’s interested in freehold, yeah? Okay, let’s step back a bit. Let’s maybe just go into briefly,
03:42
for somebody who might not know, because foreigners, especially Europeans and Americans, especially don’t work with leasehold at all. So, what is the difference? Okay, so very quickly, a leasehold, so a freehold, so we are talking about the technicalities of freehold leaseholds, but– Briefly. Okay, briefly. So, a freehold is basically buying the property, like we understand buying, acquiring a property in the States, in Europe, I’m French, so in France it’s the same. you acquire it it’s yours for life,
04:14
your kids will inherit it– It’s with the registered overland, or the title deed, et cetera. That’s freehold, foreigners are not allowed to do that. Can’t, cannot, yeah. Against the law. That’s against the law. Against the Constitution, actually. I believe it’s written in the Constitution that no foreigner or foreign entity cooperation, for instance, can own a piece of Indonesia, like a piece of land of Indonesia, which makes sense, you know? And I believe it’s the same in many Asian countries, actually.
04:46
So, that’s freehold, and in freeholds, you have different type of titles. So you have freehold on top, and in freehold, you basically have a hak pakai, which is for foreigner with a Kitas residency permit to acquire a property in their own name, so that’s possible. It’s freehold, so I’m a foreigner, It’s freehold, so I’m a foreigner, I have a work permit here, I can acquire property and put it in my name, and that’s, we have more or less the same condition as freehold. But it’s just a right, it’s a
05:18
right to put it in your name, which is a period. So it’s like a glorified leasehold, really. It’s glorified leasehold, absolutely. Because the hak pakai is Because the hak pakai is a period of 25 years only, extendable twice, so 25 years, extendable once, 20 years, and another 25 years, which is a total of? 75. 70 years, 70 years. 70 years, there you go. Okay, great, close enough. Next time, you’ll take this, yeah? (laughing) So 70 years, so hak pakai 70 years, at the end of which, who knows what happens?
05:51
Nobody’s ever gone there. Nobody’s ever gone there, so there’s no actual well-defined law that says what happened after, so it’s really at the discretion of the land office, the BPN. Okay, so no precedent, really. There’s no precedent, yeah, absolutely. And the equivalent of the hak pakai for companies is the HGB, Hak Guna Bangunan , HGB, everyone has heard of that, yeah? So when you have a company and you wanna buy a freehold, acquire a freehold, this is what happens. Your freeholds are held by
06:30
your local Indonesian person when acquired by your company, it becomes a HGB, HGB, so Hak Guna Bangunan which is basically a right of use for a company, and it’s like hak pakai, the terms are 30 years plus 20 years plus 30 years equals… 80. Nice, nice. Yes. Okay, 80 years, yeah? Good job, one point. So, and at the end of those 80 years, what happens? No one knows. No one knows. So some BPNs say, would say, and the worst part of this is that most of the notaries don’t even know, they don’t know that we don’t know.
07:20
That’s the crazy part. I don’t think anybody knows, so nobody knows. Nobody knows, because it’s not black and white, you know? So it’s all up to interpretation. So some notaries and some BPN will say, what will say, yeah, it’s okay, you can extend, and some will say, we don’t know. So we’re not gonna say yes, you know? And the problem is like, if you go to see a notaries, and this is very important, guys, if you go see a notaries, even they don’t know, what do they do notaries? They call the, they take a
07:47
phone, they call the BPN, they say, okay, so we have this company and they’re doing a hak pakai, sorry, a HGB, and can we extend yes or no? So if that land is in an area where the BPN, so the land office is favorable to extensions, then they will say yes, so notaries say, yeah, it’s okay, you can extend. Because their BPN said you can extend. But the guy that is at the head of BPN today is not the same guy at the head of BPN in eighty years. So it’s really up to interpretation. So I would highly recommend to see this,
08:24
as you say, as a glorified leasehold. You have to consider it as a leasehold So what happens is that when the time passes, so let’s say you acquire a land with your company, HGB today for eighty years, I mean, from a freehold person, so it becomes HGB, so in two years, you will have 75 years, 75, eighty years, yeah? And so on and so forth. So when you sublease it, so– resell it Well, that would be sell because it’s HGB. But okay, when you offload it, when you liquidate it, yeah, you will only pass on 78 years.
09:05
If it’s another foreigner. If it’s another company. If it goes– Another foreigner in company. Foreign owned company. So if you sell it to a local, it will– No, yeah, same thing, I think it’s same thing It’s a HGB, yeah? But if it’s a local person, then it turns into a freehold again, and then all of this is gone. So the trick is– Sell it to the local. I have a land, HGB, you have a company, you wanna acquire it, so on the way to you, I sell it to a local person who sells it to you, but then it’s double taxed.
09:42
Anyway, there are so many other reasons why leasehold is better, I don’t understand people. I get it, I get the cultural standpoint. We all were born and bred and raised in countries where the acquisition of a property is the biggest purchase in one’s life. Most of the people around you, they buy only one house in a lifetime, yeah? So this is something that you wanna pass on to your offspring. Just a lease agreement isn’t as, doesn’t feel like an ownership. It’s just a contract, really. You have to change your OS,
10:25
you have to change your operating system in your head. So for me, land is like a commodity. I don’t see this as, I’m not impacted by that cultural heritage I have in France from, this is the purchase of my life, where I don’t care, I don’t buy land, sell land, buy land, sell them cars or whatever, or watches. So, but I do, I get it. I understand why people can be shocked by it, can be surprised by it, shocked by it. I understand, so this is something new, like lease hold doesn’t exist in France.
11:01
You couldn’t, you could have been in the city anyway. Or I don’t know, I think– In the UK, that’s for sure. Long term lease. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But in South Africa, where you from, does it exist? No, it’s all free hold. Yeah, you sure? Maybe you didn’t have money back then? Well, I still don’t have money. Still don’t have any money. You’re gonna pay me more. Okay, so yeah, this is something that you have to, you have to change the way you are thinking when– But it’s just a saying, I mean, getting a lease,
11:28
it’s just as safe as getting a title deed on, there’s no weakness in your position because there’s a lease agreement, we’re not gonna disappear. I mean, it’s just, it’s bankable. All of this is, as foreigners, super protected. Unless you mess around. Because there’s a way to mess around, yeah? And that’s the nominee, buying of a nominee. So what people used to do, much less now, because opening a PMA, PMA is a foreign owned company and doing this, this HGB scheme is much easier than back in the day.
12:01
than back in the day. Back in the day, opening a PMA was something crazy. For some PMAs, you had to flew to Jakarta to meet a couple of committees and prepare, come with your homework, why do you open your PMA, what are you gonna do with your business, but those days are gone, thankfully. But it was complicated. So what people used to do, I’m going to say it here, so you guys don’t do that, yeah? So, but I don’t understand it. People used to do it, okay, so you are a local person and you are selling your property, yeah?
12:38
You’re Indonesian. I’m a foreigner, I’m interested in property, but I cannot buy it freehold What I do is I use this gentleman here, and he buys Nicholas, he’s our camera operator, and he’s Indonesian. Hi, Nicholas. So what we will do is I will use Nicholas to purchase the property for me. Yeah. Okay? So basically, I take my money, give him some money, he pays properties in his name. That’s what we trust, Nicholas Barden. So I put a nominee, yeah? So he pays for the property, and the scheme was,
13:14
if I recall correctly, I’d have, you’d have a lease agreement with him, so he would give us a lease agreement saying, you know, I lease your property for 100 years, whatever, then there is a loan agreement. So at any point in time, I can, you know, say, hey, you owe me two billion rupiah, pay up, you know, whatever, and then there was, I remember there was a document, kind of like a right of bargaining the land, right of using the land, all that, whatever. Very unsafe, don’t do that. It’s not legal, though, is it?
13:47
It’s a workaround. So all of these steps are legal, but the act of doing it is not legal. Okay. But I do not recommend to do that, if anyone offered you to do that, I would recommend to say no. Well, you don’t need it really anymore. That’s not very legal, you don’t need it, you know? So many ways you can, you can own a property and make money from that. Well, let’s get into that. All right, so why leasehold, why freehold, what’s the best? Okay, one thing that I want everyone to understand here
14:25
is that what I’m going to show you here is only relevant to certain type of areas, namely emerging areas, emerging markets. Places like Kedungu, like Bingin a couple of years ago, like Yeh Gangga in two years, and so on and so forth. This doesn’t work in Canggu, in Seminyak, all the the mature market , this doesn’t work, yeah? There’s a lot of other areas, or very, very tiny little niche areas within other areas, and we cannot name them all, yeah? So basically, just to understand how this works,
15:08
let’s see what happens with land price escalation over the course of years. So land is always the same price, I’ve seen, we’ve seen that, we’ve seen that graph before, yeah? Those that have a those who watched our other podcasts we’ve seen that, that sell up a land graph. So I’m just gonna reproduce it and comment along the way so we understand better. So in Bali, land is always more or less the same price, it’s around three million per are for leasehold per year, and equivalent to 250 million.
15:45
So three million per are per year, this is leasehold, and freehold is 250 million per are, yeah? And the price is like this, and stay on forever and ever and ever and ever, and then there’s an uptick. Something happens, people get interested in the area, and it goes up very fast, up super fast, like Kedungu today. This is today in Kedungu, yeah? And up and up and up over the course of around five years, and then it starts plateau after five, six years, yeah? And that’s what we’ve seen so far in all the markets,
16:19
I mean, the villages here, like Pererenan, like Canggu, Berawa, Batu Bolong, Berawa so on and so forth, yeah? It’s just an earlier timeframe. Yeah, so today, where’s today? Today is here, hang on, let me take another color, I’m making red so we can see it well, yeah? So this is, again, three million per are per year, leasehold, and 250 million per are freehold. This is when, it’s even lower than that, sometimes 150, you know, but more or less, yeah, a give or take, yeah? An are is how big? An are is 100 square meters.
16:56
So 10 by 10? Well, it can be two by five. Oh, sorry, yeah, 20 by five. And maybe it’s a bit of a conversion into USD, so three million is? So three million is around 200 bucks, I’d say, and 250 USD, yeah. So you’ve times it by how many are, times it by how many years, times that 200 bucks? Yeah, exactly, yeah. And 250 million is around 1,800, I don’t know, the exchange has changed lately, so and also, let’s not talk about conversion too much, the way it takes months, it doesn’t mean anything, yeah?
17:31
So out of today, this is the price, yeah? Okay, so it stays for three million forever, and then it goes up, yeah, and when it goes up, so for instance, in Kedungu today, and that’s today, okay, it’s around 13, 14 million, yeah? Before we get to that, what are the reasons why there’s this quick uptick? Like I’ve kind of figured it out, living here for six years, but what do you think? Well, let me get back to that after, because this is a podcast on its own, yeah? So let’s talk, keep that one, and we’ll talk about it in five minutes.
18:10
So today is around, let me write it here, it’s better, up 13, let’s say 14 million, yeah? 14 million, which is equivalent around 700 million, yeah? So again, this is leasehold and this is freehold, yeah? Which means if you wanna acquire freehold, one are of land, 100 square meters, you would pay 700 million cash, and it’s yours, or if you’re an indonesian , it’s HGB, if you’re a company And if you are a foreigner, you’re on a leasehold 40 million times the number of years, times the number of 100 square meter plots,
18:52
and that’s your price ultimately, yeah? So when this, when the five year term, so this is five years, here, five years, five years, yeah? When the five year period ends, the price here is around 40 to 45 million, okay? Equivalence for freehold in Rupiah would be around 1.5 billion, so 1500 million, yeah? This is a price, so I wanna talk about that price here, 1.5 million, sorry B, yeah, 1.5 billion I write so bad, okay? So we’ve noticed that over the course of so many years that we’ve been doing business here,
19:51
as far as freehold lands are concerned, there is a, this 1.5 billion mark, is kind of like a psychological cap, beyond which the land price has a very hard time to– jump over Yeah, it takes a while. So it goes higher, like, you know, in certain conditions, in Pererenan, close to the beach, for instance, you know? If you’re very close to the beach, or some conditions, yeah, all the time it goes higher, but it takes a lot of time, yeah? A prime location, freehold leverage . Yeah, and same for the 40, 45 million.
20:32
So basically what happens here, if you,let’s change colors, what color you want? Blue. Blue, light blue, okay. So let’s take today as an example, today it’s 14 million, okay? So the leasehold will go today in Kedungu, for instance, today’s 14 million per are year, it will reach 40, 45 million, yeah? So that’s three X, three X, yeah? I don’t know if you’re gonna wanna move a little bit. Yeah, three X, yeah? So that’s 300%, okay? Whereas here, let’s do it here. Oh, same. For freehold, from 700 to 1.5 billion,
21:19
is barely over two X. Not going to say anyhing ? Yeah, why? Oh, this is all very understandable and self-explanatory. Yeah, it’s a bit weird, the situation, like why there’s the difference, but you gotta figure that out. Hold on, this is because now, Kedungu is the uptick, is always like, you know, one and a half year in, yeah? But when we ‘re here , for instance, so remember this three million thing, yeah? Three million per are I per are per year never invest at three million, I never do it. I always invest at five million, yeah?
21:59
Because for me, if I know, if I see it goes from three to five in a certain amount of time, also other factors , not just that, many other factors, you know, location other developments, so on, this is where I put my money, yeah? The fund, when we started investing, this is where we, this is always where we started. So we invested at, we didn’t invest actually in five million because we only bought commercial plots, so it was a tiny bit higher, but we’re talking residential numbers here, yeah? Commercial is way higher.
22:34
Commercial is, this 40 million is 70 or 80, you know? And this is maybe when we started, the first plot I ever bought in Kedungu was 7.9 million. So eight million, yeah? And that was a year and a half ago. A year and a half ago, yeah. And it was 7.9, eight million, and we’ll get to that in five, six years, yeah? And now it’s all around. It’s 10X. 14, 15. So five million, and the equivalent, the freehold is around 300 million, yeah? So if you look at that, we’ll change color again. What do we have left?
23:11
White. If you look at that, so we are talking from here to here. For leasehold, we are talking 9X. And for freehold, we are talking 5X. So that’s why, and the conclusion of this is very self-explanatory. That’s why it’s always better in emerging areas to acquire leasehold over freehold. Plus less legal headache. Plus cheaper. Cheaper, because you immobilize less capital. Makes no sense, so you immobilize more capital and make less money, less money, right? So less legal headache, bigger market outcome.
23:58
When you sell your land, you have just more people to buy it, as simple as that. And you make more money. So that’s it, yeah. Easy. Yeah, easy. So that podcast would have been finished if you hadn’t asked a question about that. (laughing) I suppose 9X and 5X is also yummy. You gotta hit that timing so perfectly. So why, what was the question again? Oh, why? What are the factors involved with this rapid upswing? Ah, okay. So now we go to the coconut law. Yeah, that’s the coconut law. This is something foreigners
24:38
is finding even more weird. The coconut law. Yeah, that’s weird. It’s a nice story, I like telling people. So before I talk about the coconut law, let’s talk about something that we’ve talked about at length in other podcasts. The tourism growth in Bali. So in order to understand that, you must understand one to three other factors. Factor number one, Indonesian governments, starting with when Jokowi came into power in 2014, Indonesian government has a very, very strong will to develop tourism in Indonesia, okay?
25:17
The number of tourists, you’re driving in Canggu , and you’re like ah, it’s crowded, it’s nothing, it’s nothing. It’s nothing compared to, I think France is the biggest tourist country in the world. Paris. Paris. Paris, yeah, we’re 100 million people in France every year. It’s insane, yeah? I remember Singapore was around 25 million, something 24 million. Indonesia is nothing compared to that, even less than that. So there’s room, there’s so, Indonesia is so big, it’s 5,000 kilometers, it’s as big as Europe, yeah?
25:50
So imagine you combine the tourist numbers of every European country and put them together and you still have time to grow, yeah? So there’s so much room to improve tourism in Indonesia, not only on numbers, again, but also on quality, yeah? So Indonesia has a very, very aggressive policy towards tourism, they always want more and more and more and more, and they understood, before Jokowi it was kind of organic, yeah? Bali was becoming famous on its own. Through Instagram mainly. Through Instagram mainly, yeah?
26:23
But no, even before Instagram, I came in 94, we were in Legian back then, and it was starting to grow, but not as fast as now, yeah? It wasn’t an industry, it was, but not as crazy as it is. So Jokowi really set the tone, yeah? And now, I’m sure, Prabowo is very keen on developing the airport and all kind of other tourist development. And that’s essential, I mean, otherwise, you’re gonna have infrastructure, or tourist numbers, infrastructure doesn’t support, which is a nightmare. Absolutely, absolutely,
26:57
and then we can talk about the metro, yeah? Not gonna talk about it, I think I signed some NDAs. There is a metro railway plan for Bali. There is a metro, it’s starting– That’s a game changer for a month or so. We’ll talk another time, yeah? I’m trying to get these guys on the podcast, actually. Oh, wow, okay. But yeah, it’s been, it’s not easy. So what’s happening is the first factor is Indonesia has a very, very strong will to develop tourism. So more tourists, more tourists, because it’s scalable,
27:29
because I believe Bali is like five to seven percent of the GDP of Indonesia, which is massive, yeah? So they understand it’s crazy money, so you put, you know, $10 million in advertising in Indonesia and in one of the for Indonesia across the world, brings back 20 million, those numbers are not accurate. And I think Bali’s, 2024 is the highest tourism number ever in Bali. Yeah, seven million. So far. Seven million, and I read somewhere, I’m not sure it’s accurate, but they’re expecting 8 million in 2025.
27:58
So that’s– So this directly translates to this kind of upswing property. You gotta put these people somewhere. So where, you cannot, and that comes, that’s where the coconut law comes into play. So you gotta put these people somewhere, but where? So any other country, you build up, yeah? But here, there’s a law, it’s called, it’s not called a coconut law, it’s called a law number, whatever article number, whatever clause number, whatever. I called it the coconut law Known amongst foreigners we call it the coconut law.
28:30
So basically, in Indonesia, you cannot, sorry, in Bali, you cannot build above the height of a coconut, which is set as 15 meters. of a coconut, which is set as 15 meters. Coconut tree, yeah. Coconut tree, not the coconut. It’s a very low building. So 15 meters is around four levels. Yeah, I thought it was three, okay, four. There’s no limiting level. You can put like one meter level, you can put 15. Yeah, but like– But it’s more or less four– It’s a level, three meters, yeah, usually. Yeah, it’s like four
28:59
times three plus the roof, whatever, four levels, yeah. So because of that law, you cannot build upwards, so the growth of tourism goes horizontal, right? So right now, we are located right now in Pererenan, this is where we record this podcast, where our company is. From Pererenan to the airport is packed, is packed with people. So with houses and development and buildings and whatnot, yeah, so it has to overspill that way, westward, yeah, northwestward, so it has to, so those places, Kedungu and Yeh Gangga after
29:42
that and Kelating after that and even Soka and Balian and Mengwi, all these places are going to develop. It’s not an if, it’s a when, right? And so Kedungu is the next one in line, and this is why we are here, talking about it, because we’ve invested so much money there. And then there will be another one after that, and another one after that. So how to, so now how to identify, because you could just follow the map, no, it just doesn’t follow the map. But how do you identify when? So when, I don’t know.
30:14
I’ve got a theory on this one. So it just doesn’t follow, it doesn’t follow just the map, it follows the surf spots on the map, okay? So Pererenan is the last surf spot. After that, you have Seseh, Cemangi, Nyanyi, Tanah lot, Kedungu. No surf spots. None of these, some of these doesn’t even have access to the beach here. Some of these don’t have a beach, Cemangi don’t have beach. Oh, Cliff. Cliff and Tanah lot is a temple, yeah? So Seseh has a nice beach, black sand, Nyanyi has a beautiful beach as well.
30:52
But there’s no surf, okay? So those areas will develop, will develop. There’s no question about that. But when there is a surf spot, and Kedungu is the first surf spot after Pererenan, it will develop faster and stronger and higher. Sure, and the surf’s not bad in Kedungu either. And a lot of it’s beginner waves so there’s a lot of volume of surf trips. The place is huge, it’s bigger than Canggu, or as big as Canggu. The whole Canggu, left and right of the shortcut. We measured on Google Earth the other day,
31:26
the whole large Kedungu area, so Kedungu plus Pangkung Tibah, until the end of the Ciputra development is 800 hectares. It’s very big, yeah. So, well, there you go. So you know that five million, or 300 million , you know when it happened, because all those factors make it happen and you see it happening. Yeah, you see development starting, a couple of restaurants, new restaurants, some few construction sites, and so on and so forth. I think this starts to happen when this one starts to get uncomfortable.
32:12
What? When the area before, the previous region, like say Pererenan, starts to get uncomfortable. Of course. This starts to happen. Of course. Otherwise people have no reason to go there. When I moved in Pererenan six years ago, I used to live on that little house on the street here. When my house was on the main street here, when I used to hear a bike a few times a day, I was like, “Ah, too much noise, yeah.” I was like a few times a day. (laughing) Now it’s just crazy Now it’s crazy, you know, I don’t live here.
32:48
So Pererenan is technically topped out. I mean, it’s over here. Pererenan’s here. so already here And Kedungu I was offered a couple of weeks ago by some banjar official land at 50 million. Wow. So 50 million per hour. And I know some land here are being sold at the same price. So that’s the price today. Yeah, expensive. Yeah, I think it’s the price, you know. When we, I remember when we acquired that land where we built this three story building, I paid 15 million and I thought it was expensive.
33:31
It’s cheap as chips. Yeah, I’m so glad I took it. And across the road, we took another land that’s 15. And I remember I had an installment plan with the owner, 10 months installment plan. I finished paying the installments, 10 months later. One month after that, one or two months after that, I sold it for two and a half value price You know, that’s where hair, hair, you know beauty salon hair is installed now He’s there, they bought it from us. So, I mean– So this timeframe is short, short when it starts to kick off.
34:04
It’s like– Yeah, look, you know, I mean, don’t, guys, don’t try to do it for this. You know, you’re, better you follow the podcast and I tell you when this happens, yeah, on the next land. In Kedungu this is finished yeah? If you can get it from here to here, it’s a great investment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it’s start to be good to invest in the next place when it’s around, yeah, around here. You can start investing in this place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It always, it depends, you know, it’s not exact science, yeah?
34:38
It’s real estate, so you have to go, you have to check, you have to get your hand dirty, you have to talk to a bunch of people. And you’ve got to know what’s going on, the sentiment, because you can just hear, like, people just complain. You have to spend time there. You’ve got to spend time there. Spend time there. Or you’ve got to invest in somebody who does spend time. Yeah, exactly. In the beginning, the early days of our Kedungu adventure , journey, I used to go every single weekend with my daughter,
35:01
my daughter and I, and spend the weekend there. I rented every single place there is for rent, whether Airbnb or hotels or whatever in Kedungu. Yeah, I mean, you got it. Except Little Reaper, I think. That’s another podcast, that’s another podcast, yeah. Okay, so, well, that’s it. So, to sum up, okay, let’s sum up one more time. If you want to invest in Bali, and you’re thinking, you have the old ways of thinking of the, back in your country, where it’s better to buy something than lease something,
35:43
think again. If you want to make money, if you want to profit from your investment, and you want to invest in those places the markups are huge the profit is huge because the multiplier is very big, then think again, forget that way of thinking. Think leasehold, think commodity, think it doesn’t matter, don’t get emotional when you do real estate If you get emotional, see that’s when you start making mistakes Yeah, and making mistakes is exactly the opposite of optimizing. But if you want to optimize your investment,
36:17
keep that in mind, save that podcast somewhere, rewatch it in two years, in three years, in four years, the numbers will not be the same, the years will be different here, but the principle will be exactly the same because this has been going on for years and years and years in Bali Yeah, 30 years, 40 years, yeah. Yeah, so, emerging markets, leaseholds. Other markets , doesn’t matter. If you want to invest in Canggu , anywhere else, it doesn’t matter, you do whatever you want. And some people have different reason
36:52
to, in foreign investements I’m in here for the money. Some people, they want to build their dream house, or maybe even you go to Kedungu and you find this very, very amazing land that you fall in love with and it’s a freehold and yeah, just buy a freehold, no problem. But if you’re in here like me for the money to optimize as much as you can your investment, then follow that graph and you won’t be disappointed. That’s it. Yeah, and there’s also a great podcast on how to actually negotiate the leasehold
37:26
as an extension, so that’s really handy to know. Now that you have the principle you can understand how best to negotiate with the landlord and get the best deal possible. We put a link, so two links in the basement, whatever, description. The notary link, the podcast with the notary, we explain all the legalities and technicalities about buying, acquiring a property and the trick to optimize your extension negotiation. What to do? Extension, yeah. What, yeah. The extension clause technically. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
37:59
(upbeat music) All right, well, if you have any questions, feel free to ask the questions in the comments below, yeah, that’s it for today. Thank you, Gawain. Thank you. Thanks everyone. Quick and easy, thanks so much. Subscribe, share, like, whatever, whatever. And we’ll see you for the next one, which is… We’ll see, surprise. Property, surprise, yeah, anything. We have a few in the works. In the pipeline. Thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you, Ciao, bye.