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A Fashion Success Story: Paul Ropp and Biasa Group
In this episode, Gawain Blizzard sits down with Sayang Ropp, the CEO of Paul Ropp and former head of BIASA Group. Sayang shares her unique journey growing up with Bali fashion icon parents, offering unique insights and experiences that shaped her path into the fashion industry. Sayang shares her role in steering some of Bali’s most well-known fashion brands, highlighting the blend of art, tradition and culture that defines her approach to the business of fashion.
From brand building, to merchandising, to sustainability and the future of Bali’s fashion environment, Sayang offers invaluable insights for aspiring fashion entrepreneurs and those intrigued by Bali’s evolving business landscape.
Don’t miss out on her advice for those looking to start their own fashion label, blending creative vision with practical business strategies!
Sayang Rop, former CEO of BIASA Group and current CEO of Paul Ropp
BIASA Group Website: https://biasagroup.com/
Instagram: @biasaofficial
Paul Ropp Website: https://www.paulropp.com/
Instagram: @paulropp
Timestamp
00:00:00 – Introductions
00:01:00 – Guest Introduction: Sayang Ropp, the BIASA Group and Paul Ropp
00:01:36 – Explanation of Sayang’s Background
00:03:01 – Discussion on the Paul Ropp Fashion Journey
00:04:07 – Travel from USA, Goa to Bali and the Early Fashion Days in Bali
00:06:03 – Sayang’s Parents’ Early Fashion Collaboration and White Label Production with Big US Retailers.
00:08:12 – The BIASA Group Arrival in Bali and it’s Fashion Background
00:11:56 – Bali’s Transformation Over 20 Years: Personal Perspective
00:13:55 – Growth of Bali and the Fashion Industry
00:18:00 – Sayang’s Role at Paul Ropp: Marketing, Merchandising and E-commerce
00:19:26 – Transition to BIASA Group and Sayang’s early Roles & Responsibilities.
00:22:24 – Impact of COVID-19 on BIASA Group and Paul Ropp
00:26:53 – Challenges in Maintaining Artisanal Techniques and Skills
00:34:13 – The Role of Brand Identity in Fashion Businesses
00:40:01 – Challenges in the Fashion Industry in Bali
00:48:00 – The Role of CEO in a Bali-Based Fashion Company
00:51:05 – Collaboration Between Creative and Operational Roles
00:53:48 – Future of Bali’s Fashion Industry and the Impact of Tourism and Social Media
01:00:00 – Advice for Aspiring Fashion Entrepreneurs
01:01:14 – Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up
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Summary
Sayang Ropp discusses her family’s fashion legacy in Bali, the challenges of the industry, and the importance of brand identity.
Highlights
- 👗 Fashion Heritage: Sayang Ropp represents a family legacy in Balinese fashion.
- 🌍 Global Relevance: Insights on the business of fashion applicable worldwide.
- 🎨 Artistic Expression: Both brands emphasize creativity and cultural heritage.
- 🔄 Industry Challenges: The Bali fashion industry faces challenges with skill retention, technology, fast fashion and market saturation.
- 🤝 Collaboration: Successful brands balance creative vision with operational management.
- 📈 Brand Identity: Understanding identity is crucial for long-term success in fashion.
- 🌱 Sustainability: The future of fashion in Bali emphasizes artisanal skills and sustainability.
Key Insights
- 👩🎨 Identify Your Why: Understanding the core motivation behind starting a fashion brand is essential for long-term commitment.
- 🛍️ Know Your Customer: Identifying and understanding your target demographic is vital for creating relevant products that resonate with consumers.
- 🎯 Embrace Brand Identity: A strong brand identity differentiates a business from competitors and guides decision-making.
- 📉 Be Aware of Market Saturation: New brands must recognize the competitive landscape and strive to offer something unique to survive.
- 🔄 Value of Artisanal Skills: The fashion industry benefits from preserving traditional skills, which are increasingly at risk of being lost.
- 🔗 Collaboration is Key: Effective partnerships between creative and operational roles ensure a brand’s vision is realized without compromising efficiency.
- 🌟 Adapt to Change: Fashion brands must remain flexible and open to evolving trends, while staying true to their core values and identity.
Transcript:
00:01
Welcome to the Bali Business Podcast and today I’m with Sayang Ropp. She is the former CEO of the Biasa Group and current CEO of Paul Ropp which is a I would say kind of a heritage brand as far as Balinese fashion brands go, been around since the early 80s, late 80s. establishment itself with that brand early 90s, 1994 or 6. So been around for a long time so yeah join us we’re going to discuss everything fashion do’s and don’ts how it operates in Bali but it does apply to any fashion brand as far as
00:40
anywhere in the world so from production or sampling all the way through to the final product and how it works the business of fashion so join us and Sayang works the business of fashion so join us and Sayang and we’ll kick off in two minutes yeah. Alright so here we are with Sayang Ropp A bit an unusual name Sayang You’re born and bred in Bali. spent your whole life here. Mostly. Italian heritage. What does Sayang actually mean? And I’m sure you get asked this question a lot. Yeah. What does Sayang mean? It’s
01:22
an Indonesian term of endearment so it’s essentially like sweetheart darling love or baby people use it to call each other. “Sayang ku” my darling. Okay and Ropp is your father who started the fashion Paul Ropp up and your mother started the fashion fashion brand Biasa. Correct. So you were brought up into a fashion household which goes back generations I hear. You’re all I think it was your grandmother or grandfather. Great-grandma. Okay. So how did your family end up in Bali? Like what was the story behind it?
02:02
If I remember correctly my dad came here for some sort of sunglasses shoot for Calvin Klein or something way back when? He was shooting it or model? No I think he was coordinating a campaign for Calvin Klein. It was a very long time ago. It was I would say early 80s late 70s actually he’s been here since 79 so. That’s the year I was born actually. Bali must have been wild back then. Oh yeah just Brinefield’s. Barely any roads to be honest. So he was living in the States working for Calvin Klein. No he hasn’t lived in
02:48
the States since long before that. I think before he moved here he was actually living in Goa. He’s part of the Goa movement. The triangle the Goa, Bali, what was that other venue they used to go to back in the 80s Ibiza or something. Yeah so he’s part of that so he’s been not living full-time in the States since maybe even the 70s at some point. Moved to Goa, started the Tibetan t-shirt company which was quite a pioneer in tie-dye and screen printing for t-shirts. Okay so he’s always been in fashion? Well he won’t call it fashion he calls
03:31
it ooze and uzz. It’s art. He always said he’s not in the business of fashion. He’s in the business of ooze and aus. He likes to make a statement but I mean he comes from like Studio 54 you know going way back New York days when it was all about artistic expression and exploration and cultural liberation. Yeah pop culture working alongside all of those characters that’s really inspired his. So he was a New Yorker. Yeah okay so then he went to Goa doing his thing there, print t-shirt prints etc. Came to
04:10
Bali for production, Calvin Klein production and then decided to never leave. But yeah basically fell in love. New Home established himself here with like the you know that are one of the original expat communities. I think at that time he was here he was doing fashion but not with his own private label. So he used to I think facilitate production for other labels. Production as in production in Bali like Cut&sew. Yeah and they would basically produce for like big fashion houses like Zara and Miss Selfridges and what’s
04:52
the other one in New York? Saks or Neiman Marcus. Yeah a lot of them. So he was doing big production runs. Yeah. But in the 90s in Bali that must have been I mean it’s not wouldn’t say Bali is a well-known as in Cut&Sew production. I don’t think it would be holy in Bali. I think they we did a lot of let’s say work through India as well. So India has always been a very big part of the beginning heritage of both my parents. Okay. And there was a lot of collaborative work between here and here. So they
05:32
were moving to India, Bali doing the production in both. In both I would assume. They had a big one here too though. So the buyers from all those big you know fashion houses, retailers, they would come here and the place the orders and I think when my mom started working with my dad before Biasa, she would design collections for them to order then they would produce and ship full wholesale and that was before either of them started their fashion like private label. So they were doing made to order like white label so they would
06:06
design a collection for the retailer, do a collection in India here and then deliver. Yeah massive, massive production like massive orders back in the day. I’m sure. Yeah. I don’t think American retailers were huge. I mean there was like five of them doing huge quantities. Yeah. Okay. And is that how your mother and father met? No, they started doing that together because they had already met. So my mom came in 82, 83. Why did she move here? Her best friend, no okay, she moved here because she had a best friend who
06:39
I believe was an Indonesian guy I remember. She came here to visit him, crash landed here actually on her first time to Bali. The plane had an emergency landing. Oh like literally. And she came to stay with her friend and also fell in love and never left. Came from Italy. But at that time she had already been spending time as a photographer in Aspen. So she was already like on her venture out of being in Italy since she was quite young. She came here at 27 and she’s been here ever since. Okay. So your mom traditionally fashion
07:20
background or photographic background or art background? Because I know Biasa is very influenced by art. Yeah. So is your mom, I mean she just I presume loves all three of those things but. I think mom just loves all things art and culture and beauty although it’s objective still there’s some sort of pull towards that. But she I think as a hobby and she was quite good at photography being able to see the beauty, the composition, the this like you know the context of photography is one way of exploring.
07:55
Aesthetic and she was working as a ski photographer in Aspen. But she is a third, she used to work for her mom as a designer and for her mom’s establishment. So she’s third generation fashion already on the woman’s side of my mom’s side. What kind of fashion would like more on the couture side or? Kind of so my grandma, my grandma, she had a label called Maria La Ami and actually recently I found a bunch of her stuff on eBay and I bought it for my mom and they’re like epic things. She did a lot of like back in the day you know
08:36
fur massive big jackets all these kinds of coats and dresses and beautiful cultural heritage like craft. She was already using it back then. So this was in Italy in Rome. I think she was one of the first I don’t remember the details I should better but she was one of the first women to open a ready to wear boot not ready to wear but to open a boutique. And own a boutique in in Italy. Italy. I might get the facts not entirely correct. Let’s not fact check this. Let’s not fact check that. There’s there’s my mother could tell that story
09:17
obviously a lot better than me but she did a lot of export and shows and she would under her own name but would sell everywhere else. So long historical heritage fashion background. Parents meet here then meet and you come along. Yes. And then so you’ve been brought up in the A – In Bali from day one fashion kind of business the business of fashion. Yeah. On both sides. So how I mean we’ll discuss kind of the changes. Bali’s gone through as far as fashion because it’s quite an interesting little little pool of
10:01
quite a I wouldn’t say fashion center but it’s definitely got its pool. Yeah. And then the Bali. Bali must have changed drastically. So you started out in Seminyak Kuta area. Yeah. So tell me a bit about how Bali has transformed over 20 years of you been alive Twenty three two maybe not so much. OK. So OK to give you a little bit of perspective growing up I mean up until six years ago I lived in the same family home. That was always since my dad and mom. My dad’s had that house before my parents even met.
10:44
So you live in the same house. Yes. I’ve been I’ve been living in the same house or I was up until six years ago living in the same house that my dad had since before my parents met. And in my childhood in my memory I have seen it go from you could see the ocean like all rice fields around us. Nothing. We were like one of the one of two or three houses in like the entire area with no buildings barely a road. And you could see all the way to the ocean. This was Dhyna Pura which is now like the gay street. Right.
11:19
Yeah. Yeah. So Dhyana Pura all around us was rice fields and and then it was what 15 years ago that development really started. And I remember there was this one time where there was like six like 800 room hotels being built at the same time in like less than a kilometer. Like right. 800 room. Massive hotels being built all around that area. And then the bars and the restaurants and the shops. And now for already probably 10 years more than 10 years. Seminyak exploded late 90s? No I would say no I
12:03
would say it exploded in the early mid 2000s. It started exploding not even further than that later in the 2000s. It’s very the progress has happened so fast. Like it’s the exponential growth. I don’t know how it’s. Yeah. I’ve seen it happen in Pererenan because I’ve been here what six years and that’s exploded. So Seminyak is a massive scale. A lot bigger scale was must have been huge back in those days. But it’s kind of the same. This used to be nothing. And it became something so populated. It was the same thing in Seminyak. I
12:37
mean the infrastructure and like the building of the hubs has started Kuta Seminyak. You know then it goes out to Canggu Pererenan. Now it’s going out to Seseh and Nyanyi. It’s And it’s going to continually grow and just populate every coastal area without a single patch of rice field left. Like my house has no not one single patch in like a few kilometer. We discussed this actually on an earlier podcast Green Zoning and how ineffective planning. We won’t get into that. But so your journey specifically is discussed fashion. So your
13:17
journey I mean I presume having parents like you do. Were you pushed into the fashion world? Did you resist it? How did it all happen? No my parents never pushed me into the fashion world. I guess it kind of I found myself in it. I never expected to be in the fashion world. I mean growing up around it with my parents. Bali was such a small world back then. So it’s kind of very well known. You know they were very well known. They’re big household names. Especially when I was growing up. So it was
13:56
always around and you get summer jobs. You know you’re helping around your conversations at home have a lot to do with the business. So you kind of like learn by default and you experience it by default and absorb it. Having parents like them and what they do. And they’re so engrossed and passionate about what they do. But I moved away for not just university I guess. I did schooling abroad. I did 12 years of schooling abroad and I never thought I’d move back to Bali. So what did bring you back?
14:31
I desired to help the family business and it was a very shocking. It was a very shocking revelation. It was not expected. Moving back to Bali or helping on the business? Being interested in helping the business and moving back to Bali was never something I thought I’d do. I thought I’d come here for a year. Help my dad. I came originally to help in my dad’s business. At Paul Ropp and life happened and here I am eight years later. Wow. So what were you what were you first helping in Paul Ropp. Was that your first formal role with either the
15:04
brand or did you be working like weekends. No. I don’t know how legal it is. Since I’ve been 13 I’ve been like working summers. I’ve been working always in there whether it’s like an internship experiential learning. I mean I’ve done things like my whole job was to just go through years of media archives to folder like system systemize the foldering system so that people could track images. I mean anything from that to I used to actually write their articles for Paul Ropp throughout the years and you know lead photo shoots.
15:43
It’s kind of been a little bit of here and there and my dad’s favorite thing was to have a sitting in on his meetings and see how he operates. It’s one of his biggest. It’s his legacy you know it’s his biggest love aside from family that he loved to share with us. So every opportunity that we could get you would love to have us in there and just experience it with him. Okay. So that was your first role with your dad. So you’re working with with on Paul Ropp. So business was fairly established when you came in.
16:12
Yes. By the time I came in the business has been established. I’ve totally lost track of time. A couple of decades. Yeah. Very 20 plus years. And it was very established very successful. It had its name. It had its everything. But at that point my dad was already aging. You know and he also didn’t have any more like. At the height I think of his business practice he had PR assistance kind of a lot of support system around him for the business side of things and the opportunity. And he had just come off like dengue or other
16:52
sicknesses that kind of slowed him down and he didn’t have all of that auxiliary support. So I he asked me to join him in Miami. Because he was presenting a collection to potential buyers and I’m sitting there in these Paul Ropp collection because he didn’t have his sales people his his PR people. So he was doing it on his own. And he asked me to support him in that endeavor. So I’m here in these meetings in Miami with him about the collection about the sales talking about all of these things that I
17:24
realized that I was capable of helping. I like I could actually make a difference and support him in a way that he needed at that time. So I kind of made a very unexpected fast decision to move back. I said I would do it for six months a year. Help him out. Here you are. Here I am eight years later. And then I moved from my mom of my dad’s after a year I moved to my mom’s and actually spent most of my tenure there. so you were at Paul Ropp couple of months as a just one with your official role in that business.
18:05
I was there for a year. My role was kind of operations manager general manager. I mean it’s hard to define. But what I did was mainly I took control of their marketing. I created their new e-com platforms Instagram strategies shooting strategy media strategy and communications. And then from so you saw more marketing PR. Yes. More comms side. And then you left Paul Ropp and went to Biasa yeah? yes Well explain that whole move. And what was the change and then what you did. Yes. At Biasa? So I actually started off as let’s call it a
18:49
merchandising intern. I really started off low. And I spent the first year really just trying to absorb because the business practice and the opportunity of these two companies even though they’re same industry and have a lot of similarities. It’s like two different machines. So I in what way are they different. Operative practices and methodologies. It’s tricky. It’s like I will get back to that. So I started off as a merchandising intern and then I moved in as retail manager. And then Covid kind of hit around that period.
19:22
So I started off as a merchandising intern and then I moved in as retail manager and then Covid kind of hit around that time where I was transitioning from retail manager into I was retail manager then retail and marketing manager then Covid hit. And then I became retail manager marketing manager merchandising manager kind of took over finance as well and legal. And that’s kind of how I developed into CEO at that time because what with Biasa during Covid we I mean both of these companies being so long standing have you know 10
20:06
year of like your employees have been there 20 plus years 30 years. How many employees more or less are in work. It’s all pre Covid and then let’s go into Covid because I’m sure there was a lot of very stressful change management that you have to deal with during that time. So how many employees then how many employees now more or less. How many stores altogether. Okay. One at the time. So so employees when we when Covid hit I’m pretty sure we had about upwards of 250. Employees Big operation Yes it was it’s a big operation
20:43
Nine stores. This is Biasa 250 employees nine stores. Paul Ropp. Four stores several hotels. We also have Thailand as a company for Paul Ropp which has its own stores pre Covid had four as well plus like 10 hotels. And the hotels were everywhere. So it was a concession. Presume concession or consignment internationally. No these companies we used to like years ago there was a lot more international exposure for Paul Ropp. But now they’ve been more contained to Bali and Thailand where the hubs of the businesses are
21:28
where the two businesses are for better control and opportunity. OK so you scale back on the consignment concession side other business in terms of expansion geographically. OK and are you back to pre Covid levels as far as staffing and where you were Biasa is and which is a real testament to. There to the companies and the brands survival skills. Yeah strengths. It’s definitely back to pre Covid numbers and probably even stronger. Not just sales side I mean internally. I mean that’s saying that during Covid we did 100 percent.
22:12
PHK severance to people who have been there for 20 plus years. You know what is owed to them. It was like the ethical thing to do because at the end of the day with. Company regulations in Indonesia it can become a sticky point but we essentially operate to close down the company for a few months during Covid and then started again from 20 people and grew all the way back. That must have been exceptionally difficult because I mean growing your talent from for 20 years or 15 years and losing that and have to.
22:40
Onboard that again must be traumatic. Yeah it’s one of those biggest learning curves of understanding the true value of your artisans whether it’s people like people who know your history your your growth the growing pains that you’ve gone through and why. It is so tied to the people that have been with you through that and the minute they’re not there whether they’ve moved on whether they’ve so many people move back to their villages during Covid and didn’t necessarily come back so fast. And when you move those people with the skills,
23:17
especially the sowers that are your true like heart and soul of being able to produce what you produce. It’s a real wrench that gets thrown in if you don’t have that and you realize how valuable people’s skills knowledge and experience with you is. And also it’s a bit of a dying skill I would think. Absolutely. That kind of hand. Maybe just discuss it a little bit like Biasa specifically is very artisanal handwork hand stitching beading etc. So those those kinds of skills you need to develop somebody when they’re
23:51
young and they just you know. Yeah I mean being a seamstress a sower a tailor that is OK. For me it’s very linked in Bali specifically but it can be seen on a global scale too. But in Bali specifically it’s very much linked to this commercial tourism growth and what kind of other opportunities exist now. rather than being seamstress which which is a lot of work and skill and labor in a way because you really have to be good at what you do. People might rather be a waitress, work in a hotel, get their tips, work in a villa, be a lot
24:27
more culturally exposed to the novelties that are being introduced in. So you’re struggling with well you develop talents over years and you would struggle to onboard young people. Yeah because that skill is not that the younger generations don’t have an interest in learning them anymore. And it’s very much true also for other artisanal practices whether it’s you know certain kinds of hand woven techniques or block printing or dying techniques. If it’s like yarn dyed or the methods of dying through like there’s these methods in India that
25:07
you use like cow dung and stuff like these kinds of heritage practices that were so necessary and they were nurtured so much in the past are becoming a dying trade. And that’s what one of the similarities between Biasa and Paul Ropp is that they’re really both in their techniques and their standards and what they’re trying to achieve on an artistic level and an artisanal level is to kind of not like to sediment it, not sediment it to protect it. To keep it going these dying trades that the younger generations have not as
25:49
much of an interest in pursuing. So how are you doing that like in reality like do you have like a youth program that’s trying to developing the families of employees like because once it dies off it’s gone, it must be very difficult to bring those skills back. It is and things are also being a lot more automated now right. Especially with fast fashion. Exactly when the factories come in the big machines they’re taking away the minute that you industrialize for operational efficiency a artistic form like fashion or craftsmanship you
26:23
lose the essence of the art behind it and that that the art at your fingertips. And I suppose that’s what really sets both your brand apart. Biasa is all about the artistic artisanal slow fashion side of things. At the end of the day yes so it might be fashion it might be a business but there’s so much more depth to these two brands and what they can teach and expose and express in terms of cultural heritage and importance. And then I suppose that if we could get back to identity because both of those things are really
26:59
important branding identity and how that’s linked to what you just explained about how manufacturing process sampling process etc. So how do those two interplay so you got your brand identity and then your actual garment production product. So that’s like your stream like your line between your between. Yeah. It might not be something that you consciously know but it’s very visible from the outside of those two things have interplay. You know your brand is built off those products manufactured.
27:35
I think that if I want to be careful how I word this a little bit how I conceptualize it but I mean I think these this answer might be slightly different in the details between these two brands. But the end of the day it’s understanding brand identity above all else. That’s first and that’s what dictates how you get from A to Z. What is brand identity then to you and your businesses. How do you define that. So for example for Paul Ropp brand identity has always followed kind of like my dad’s personal
28:14
like he has these adages like he. Fun in the sun or he it’s always about expression. It’s about color. It’s about breaking convention breaking boundaries staying true to yourself not because it’s imposed externally but because you’re defining it internally so it’s never followed trend. It’s never followed some sort of you know externally set requirement of what fashion should look like should be done like it’s very self imposed and self directed. And that goes you know then you link that to the
28:50
cottage industry in India and how Mahatma Gandhi said we can empower our you know our people by putting a loom in every household and therefore they become self sustainable and they don’t rely on. The British role for sustaining their own families they can get themselves money they can make themselves close they have the power in their own hands to do what they need by putting a loom everywhere in every household. And that leads into how the weavers are taught from the parents every generation it becomes a
29:21
family practice and a family way of life and I think Paul Ropp has very much. Honed in on that and based its identity on a very similar thing it’s about you having what you need your expression your independence. Freedom of expression freedom of art creativity. Which is a reflection of my dad and the same is true as I said I think for Biasa and justs a very different identity but it’s a reflection of my mom about I mean her motto is extraordinary simplicity so what looks so simple at first sight
30:00
then you look into the the details. And the little signature messages here and there about how things are put together the construction the thought process behind the prints or the way it’s constructed or it there’s so much depth into that and I do think I’ve strayed from your initial question. No I mean I’ve established which I think leads on to my next question which is your mom Biasa and art work very closely together and your mom is an artist a Biasa is an artistic brand it’s an artistic expression of clothing and you can see
30:39
that on every piece you know it’s they’re all special pieces you know but how did art because you have a you have a exhibition space gallery art. Okay so how did how did that all come about and how does it fit in. Well back okay so when Biasa first started it was one small store it was nineteen ninety four and it was just fashion but then there was Biasa group I’m pretty sure emerged because mom wanted to have her hobby which was art she. I think through her travels through Indonesia again I was really young this happened in two
31:14
thousand five but through her travels in Indonesia and part of her exploration and research and development cultural growth and understanding and. You know outreach she came across a lot of booming contemporary artists in the art scene of of Indonesia that kind of gave her like a muse like a spark so she actually started the art as a complete passion project and then it was that’s why it was separate from the fashion side on a company level and that’s where Biasa group was born to house both. Local Indonesian Indonesian contemporary
31:55
Indonesian art yeah I think a lot of her original exposure to that may or may not have happened in Jogjakarta don’t quote me on that but. And then she decided to create the art as a way to present and showcase Indonesian artists because contemporary art for Indonesia was not a very big thing back then they might have had set a couple well known galleries but she started this one to really really it was a passion project it wasn’t she just did it because she really enjoyed it and she’s very good at it and
32:32
then slowly slowly Biasa art and my mom. Quite became quite synonymous in the contemporary art scene and the gallery scene and she was actually awarded a few years ago the knighthood of the Republic from the Republic of Italy for her cross cultural development between Indonesia and Italy. Oh wow because she brought the first Indonesian artists to the Venice Biennale and presented them there as part of her gallery what is the. The biggest one of the biggest between the it’s okay it happens okay in Venice
33:08
it’s the biggest art scene excuse my. I don’t even know how to explain it but it’s the biggest art collaborative cultural art exhibition in Venice that happens biannual. Yeah. And it also happens art Basel so there’s art Basel. So it’s like that but the Venice Biennale is actually I think used to be bigger in art is not my scene so I am not the best to speak about it but she brought the first Indonesian artists to be presented. She was knighthooded knighthooded by the Republic of Rome by the pre-will knighthooded by the president but
33:51
knighted by the ambassador of that time in Jakarta. We had a little shindig for her in the embassy. Wow okay so I think yeah philosophy what you stand for what the brand stand for heritage etc. Let’s bring it back to the practicalities of the 21st century. What how do you maintain this kind of integrity when you have to deal across verticals and platforms and things like TikTok. You know Instagram how do you keep that integrity. That’s where your brand identity is extremely important. How do you control that nuts
34:31
nuts and bolts day in day out. How is your brand. How do you control this across a team which is a few hundred strong. And is it something that’s always been there like as far as like your management SOP, your brand Bibles etc. Was it something you just had to use for years probably intrinsic. You know these things because you’ve been there from day one. You’ve got to manage you like you managing a company sizable businesses now. How do you ensure that that integrity is maintained. I think it’s a very big challenge and I think
35:04
this is where the longevity of your employees play a massive role is the. It’s the hardest with new employees. So when your employees and when your company has grown through those growing pains of I mean pre social media to today like the polarization of media has changed the game entirely. And the accessibility to Internet and the different platforms and media trends has changed everything every step of the way. But when people have been there from day dot and gone through those pains with you as a growing
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company as your brand is developing because things are always moving forward. Brand is evolving even if you have your identity strong and your identity remains the same the way that it is projected communicated and grows and develops will always continue to develop. I mean that’s the thing is like that. So having people who have that heritage with you they help to ensure and foster the continuity of your brand ethos your brand standards and the direction. Because it’s the hardest thing now to bring in
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newer generations of people especially with the difference in work ethic between older generations and Gen Z whatever the case may be to bring in that kind of freshness into a very established business lends itself to a lot of potential clash . Yeah. Yeah. So to answer your question how do we keep that it’s culture,it’s culture. It’s business culture and it’s the one sort of the manualization of processes and yeah it’s the one that people making decisions whether it’s a hiring decision or a management decision.
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They need to be able to represent your brand and understand it. So even if you know digital marketing strategy dictates that to increase your sales you need to do X Y and Z if that might work for a mass brand or fast fashion it doesn’t mean to adopt it on a company like ours because we need to make sure that we are abiding by our own set of rules in terms of how to maintain and protect the integrity of our brand DNA. And I suppose that buck stops with you these days. Really. No. Absolutely not.
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Who’s stopping with. I suppose your mom is still involved heavily on the Biasa side. But oh you mean for Paul Ropp. Yes. But also because I have you know three of the four pillars of that company have been there 20 years. They know the history. They live breathe and are the brand and grew with the brand and have been there for all of the growing pains as much as anybody even more than me. So that’s your merchandisers marketing managers and production manager. They you know your company is as good as the people within it. And
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when when they’re standing up for your brand and protecting your brand as much as you are as a leader. That’s where you’re strong. So let’s take a step back. Let’s talk about fashion because fashion is actually from what I From my experience. We won’t get into it. But it’s a really tricky business seasonal manufacturing products sampling product. What would you say are the biggest challenges. So we’re advising a startup or somebody wants to get into the industry and from where they are now to where you are now.
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What would you say like the standout kind of lessons that you would flag if somebody getting into this industry? I think that I might have a different answer if you’re talking fast fashion or slow fashion because if you’re talking fast fashion has a lot more to do with efficiency and productivity and industrializing your price, price points. It’s really about playing the game. But if you’re talking about slow fashion brand identity that’s an entire different game like ballpark. I think it’s a bit of a hybrid these days is kind
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of where things are going a little bit. But let’s let’s talk about Bali because I suppose we’re we live and we operate. But so I suppose there is a bit of a fast fashion mix into things. But it’s not true fast fashion. We’re not talking like Zara or Shein or something at that scale. So it’s still small cut and sow operations 10 20 30. So as a single pattern cutter and the sample room etc. That’s the kind of operational size we’re looking at. We’re kind of finding efficiencies on that scale isn’t a big deal. So if you step
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outside of that what other than efficiencies what other advice would you say where will the uphill battles come in the next five years after they start this journey? Well I think if we see over my lifetime in Bali a lot of the parents of the kids I grew up with so those expats back in the day a lot of them were in fashion. And you see a lot of people coming here now for fashion because you know the perception is that raw materials and labor are cheap and therefore you can explore your creativity on a commercial
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platform without too much headache. However what people don’t realize especially now with the turnover and like this like machine churning of businesses up and out very fast. But starting in closing or in fashion or just in general? In general but fashion and F&B are the highest turnover of businesses. F&B is wild turnover. Wild but so is fashion. Fashion labels starting stopping starting stopping because why. stopping starting stopping because why. Why. Why. There are several reasons in my question and my perception. OK why. Because
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number one the market number one the market here is extremely saturated. for fashion. I’d say that but then you look at like the tourist numbers you look at you know the new airports you’re looking at new ports cruise line is all those kinds of things in the market growing hugely. Sure but there’s not enough distinction and this goes back to brand identity and mission everything and skill and labor and all of that artistic thing that goes behind it. Everybody. Oh OK I don’t get so much trouble saying this.
41:33
Say it we need the hook on. No but I believe that, The reason why fashion labels here don’t succeed, I mean there’s so few labels here that have the longevity of my parents brands or there’s there’s some others but in terms of there’s a handful right. And why do these new ones not succeed because And why do these new ones not succeed because they don’t have an identity. They’re doing a fashion label as a business and not as a passion. There’s two different kinds of businesses. You can either have a business where you want it to
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operate without you and it becomes a machine and you can sit in the corner and you can let the things go. Or there’s the other kind of business where my parents operate where it’s like this is your life and soul and you put everything into it and you’re there every step of the way and you know everything from the bottom of how and what technique that people have to sew all the way until the top and how to create and everything in between because it is everything to you. And you have an identity
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and that identity is you. i see all of the popping up of all of these different labels now here even stores labels whether they’re produced here or not or they exist here. I don’t see a stark difference between them. It’s all same. Yeah they’re all same because they’re they’re appealing to your mass general public. Neither of my parents brands are they have extremely you know they have a they know their customer and it’s not everybody. But the people that are opening companies now and brands now they’re trying to get as many like a
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broad demographic accessibility to ensure their success because to be honest I don’t think they’re confident enough in their styles or their brand identity. what would you advice be that? somebody trying to get into fashion. Understand exactly who you are what makes you special what your strengths are and focus on that not everything else and know your customer. So I think people you know they’re going to fashion or any business and they’re kind of like okay this is what I want to do this is the kind
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of direction this is what inspires me. And then they’re second guess things and they step back and they’re like oh maybe I should just kind of look at other options that is not too risky and then they’re kind of saturated down saturated the idea. Sorry not saturated done ideas diluted. That’s that’s the thing that’s though that’s the more you’re trying to play the game right the more you have to be risk averse because logic dictates that you should do X Y and Z. But you need to be ahead of the game you need to
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be a pioneer not a follower you know I think that’s exactly both my parents and their own rights with their brands they’re very willing to take risks because they do things outside of the box and it’s not because other people do it that way. So it’s about that trusting your internal strength and you know instinct it’s very intuitive. I think that a lot of people also that start businesses I mean fashion labels here maybe they think it could be a fun business but is that really their intuitive strength to start a label
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maybe they should just run another kind of business. I don’t know I’m just saying because fashion is not easy and it’s not for everybody it is an extremely challenging business as you know like as an industry the complexity especially when you’re doing like these two businesses we’re talking about especially when you’re doing from design sampling production retail all in a vertical operation the complexity of how to ensure smooth sailing among all of that requires so much. Personal intuition and interest
45:30
and experience and experience. Okay so what is your typical day look like as CEO what are you doing or your coffee dates luncheons cocktail parties that’s pretty much pretty much it’s You would like to think so. No so I mean being at the help really don’t like the term CEO. What was your call something king of the castle no am joking No no listen everything is a collaborative experience okay and no matter at what position you’re in so at the Biasa even though I had that title I think you’re just you have to be kind of
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like a jack of all trades in a way and me coming kind of. I don’t have the experience that my parents have I don’t have a 20 year tenure in the fashion industry. You know I came into it yes learning a lot by default being my parents child but I come from I had to learn a lot on the job. That’s what everybody does but I mean to be this a CEO I believe that a CEO in a Bali based company is very different role than a CEO in a western based company in what way? In the way that Bali works. What way does it work?
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That’s a whole other podcast that’s a whole other kind of works okay but let me get back to what you were asking okay so as CEO of the Biasa It’s only I mean my role had a lot to do with putting out fires helping navigate people’s everyday tasks because my role as CEO is just it’s just the title it’s a name for what was I really doing. I mean I was handling so many different departments in terms of making them operate to the best of my ability without proper managers there because so much on the strategy side the
47:28
thinking side the critical thinking side having to help direct and teach and make sure that people are kind of going in the right direction. This goes back into work culture and brand DNA and all of that just to help make sure that we’re guiding them the right way and that’s a lot of my roles and setting meetings and giving intentions and analyzing work and data and putting out a lot of fires and saying oh we have this problem okay this one can’t do that that one can’t do that. It’s like you’re the puppet master without
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actually being able to lift people’s hands whereas my mom’s role as president founder creative director and head designer. I mean that role as a leader in that department is so different than as the leader on a business operations everyday level versus the creative. So how did that work together those two roles? Well what really worked with my mom and I were is that like her her strengths are not mine. Like what she’s great at and good at and like basically a genius in are my weaknesses like I wouldn’t even touch that.
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But what I’m good at they’re not her strengths. So we could really play to each other’s strengths and weaknesses and understand that I’m not going to even as a CEO I’m not going to go into her world and tell her how to do things because she knows better. And then in my world she also kind of fell back on my expertise my knowledge in my direction of things because she knows she doesn’t know better. Not that she doesn’t know but she I know that’s more in tune with how to work that than she is and she’s more into how to work that than I am.
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So we really just play to our own strengths. I presume she’s a little bit more resistant as far as getting involved operationally. She’s a creative person. She’s an extremely creative person. So management and operations is probably something she has a resistance to. It’s not that she’s done it and she now doing it again. She has to do it because she is a business owner. But the more that she has to be involved in that and that has to go through her door. The less she’s able to do the things that she’s
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actually good at which is the creative side. Curation you know PR art direction photo shoots the designing the everything creative about the brand. The more she has to be responsible for everything else she can’t do that but nobody can replace her there. That is the one place that nobody can replace her. This other people can step in support and do what we need to do to fill in the gaps. This we can’t I suppose from my experience looking at from outside perspective I think the most successful brands especially smaller brands not like big
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retail side but like small either family brands or startups under 50 people or so. There is generally two. There’s the creative person and then there’s either somebody who’s really good at like e-commerce or somebody is really good at wholesale or business or sales. Or business in general or scaling a business or understanding ads really well somewhere that they can access a market or a niche very well so that the creative side can penetrate. I find if there’s that side is looking is missing that person the creative person even though the
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product can be excellent kind of flounders in limbo. Not having a direction of how to really penetrate a niche and get sales traction and brand. See well it also depends because if you’re like my mom and her strengths also lie in understanding unique value propositions right. So she has this vision she knows what will and will not work just because she’s so sure of what and understands her demographics understands her product her brand everything around it is so clear for her. That the how and the why.
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No sorry the why and the what are exceptionally clear sometimes the how is a little bit difficult. So in a lot of businesses I mean it’s like you know time and time again the creative and the operational or the creative and business creative and finance they always have go head to head and have conflict because what drives the creative and what drives operational oftentimes go against their base fundamental principles of each other. So I think it’s a big challenge for a lot of industries where you are creatively led but you
51:56
have to also be managed and well traditionally the creative and the CFO always fighting always fighting. But the thing is we could like that fighting should not be detrimental or hindering because it can actually be very fruitful. And in so far as we understand creative dictates the what and the why which are very important. And if it’s a creative industry and then the operational the CFO whatever just has to dictate the how and they have to meet in the middle. They might not always agree but this has like the
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creative vision has to be protected and nurtured. Well that’s what your product is the creative vision. So that’s the business at the end of the day product is the end result of creative fruit. Right. The product is the way I see it. It’s that you know you have a business that is driven by creativity but the creativity is the creation part. The product is the result. So at the end of the day it’s the fruit of your labor but the creativity means that the creative mind needs to have its ability to be in its
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creative chaos its creative genius that cannot be controlled too much. It cannot be regimented. It cannot be made more industrial or efficient. It has to allow for creative freedom and chaos. And then that creative chaos once it has been conceptualized or conceived then can be filtered through the more logical operational practice. But if that creative chaos is thwarted and not allowed to be rampant and run free like not throughout the whole company but in its own bubble then you don’t have the
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strength of your creative business. I get that. Yeah. Sure. So taking that into account. Where do you see Bali going bringing in fashion the whole sustainability thing Bali where it’s going the direction where do you see your businesses moving to in the future, How what is the next three to five years look like for both Bali and your fashion brands? I think Bali because of it could be because of the diluting of the market and therefore the resources. But I do not see this is bad since we have too
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many manufacturing companies here but I do not see that Bali is the best place to grow a manufacturing company for the future because the skill of that skill that we said was a dying skill. That was never truly found in Bali actually was a lot like it was but it was primarily a lot more of the other Indonesian islands that were residing here or expats here like you know like they have the skill. And now they post COVID a lot of them have moved back and are not interested in being in Bali especially with the way that
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Bali is now the growth of Bali. Is it too expensive or? The Bali identity has changed why people used to come to Bali before and what made Bali what it was known for and what made it attractive is no longer what makes it attractive today. So define our interest is another what you think what was what was then and what is now? So why I mean it’s quite normal in a way you know but what was Bali before what attracted if you’re talking back in my parents generation what attracted people to Bali was completely breaking
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out of the confines of cultural expectation within their systems whether it’s America US. You got to start fresh in Bali and you made your own way. Pioneering people pioneering and not being told how and what and why to do it but deciding for yourself. So it was very much attracted people trying to break free and run away from the man right away from the law and the tax of a lot of those people in Bali. There was there’s a lot of those people too. Yeah. So people trying to build their own rules,
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their own systems and their own reasons why. You know, then Bali on a tour because this was a kind of like pre tourism really pre what Bali tourism is now that was people emigrating and like discovering and moving. And then tourism kind of started because it started being known for this, you know, the island of the gods this luxurious tropical exotic getaway where you could just be. Well, I think Bali growth was synonymous with Instagram’s growth. Please don’t. No, what you see Bali’s growth as
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today. Yes. And that’s what I’m saying today. Oh, gosh. Yes. No, I mean, 1994, they weren’t, you know, it was not Instagram, but I’m talking about this recent way the last 10 years, 15 years. It’s the rise of it was the rise of the digital nomad. and Instagram Yeah. And it’s this the what rise of the I guess the I’m a bit hesitant to say the millennial generation because I am technically a millennial. But that and the next generations, their growth and their evolution through the entire age of media and what then drove them to places now
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drives the entire economic growth of that place. Because there’s no longer a pioneer. No, it’s the follower. It’s the expansion. It’s the I want the commercialization and that doesn’t mean a business like yours. In such a specific niche In such a specific niche Still, the can’t service those outliers, which it does so well. You know, those unique individuals that are looking for something a bit different. Sure, but think about it on a price point level. Sure, but think about it on a price point level.
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I mean, if somebody is going to be coming to Bali, like they used to, people used to come to Bali, go to the five star hotels, the epitome of leisure luxury, right? I mean, you’re talking high spending customers, both of the brands that we’re talking about today, they require a certain price point, somebody willing to spend a certain ticket price, not just because of value, but I’m talking monetarily. really. The people that are spending that much money and that are coming here on a leisurely way
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are going to spend two hours in traffic to go anywhere with the kind of chaos of this younger demographic on this party scene and the craziness of the streets and energy in Bali. They’re not coming for those reasons anymore. It no longer entices that kind of person. And the kind of person that’s coming to Bali now, whether they’re coming here for six months, a work experience, a digital nomad, influencer, whatever the case may be, they– not to say that they don’t have money or they’re not willing to spend money,
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but that generation of people spend money on entirely different interests. Experiences and travel. Experiences, travel. But fashion is still a part of that. No. They’re going to buy fashion that is trend. It’s all about trend. It’s all about– But Biasa and Paul Ropp is a trend. But it’s a unique outlier. It’s not trend. It’s never followed any trend. It’s your own trend, is what I’m saying. I mean, it has its– It’s style. It’s style, yes. It’s style. It’s about the freedom of expression. But who’s expressing anything–
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But that is a trend in itself. Freedom of expression with– I mean, only now with Gen Z, I feel like people are getting a little bit more experimental with their expression of identity and style, even though I don’t necessarily like it. But I think it’s quite interesting. It doesn’t matter. They’re being more experimental now. There’s been several years of this growth of the millennial population and generation where style, class, aesthetic, it’s become homogenized into some pool of sameness and replicas of each other,
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because it’s all about commercial growth and being a part of that. That’s what– that’s like literally the sickness, the disease of Instagram. You look at it like that. Yes, I am a little bit pessimistic. The opportunity of Instagram or the– I think that can be an opportunity. Sure. And there’s two ways to take it. And there is the good side and the bad side. But I think that’s a podcast in and of itself. Yes. And how social media affects culture and society. I think– let’s finish it off, because I
01:00:30
think there’s a lot of young, aspiring people, either in the fashion industry starting a label or wanting to start a label who will work in it. What are some advice and wisdom? What more would you say to somebody trying to crack into this industry? Number one, figure out your why. Why do you want to crack into this industry? And then if you figure out your why and you’re sure with your why, figure out I’d be sure with your identity, because that’s how you connect it to your why, your identity. And then know your person.
01:01:09
Know your demographic. I don’t know much else to say aside from those things. So you know your customer. Know your customer. And your customer does not have to be good at what you do. Be good at something. If you’re good at something, be good at that. And capitalize on that. Got it. OK. Well, any more wise words of wisdom, or should we close it off? That’s it. I don’t want to rant on to the negatives. Time for a cocktail, yeah? Absolutely. So thank you very much. Thank you for Sayang for joining us.
01:01:44
It was informative and lots of tips and tricks and things to do and not to do. Don’t forget the two brands that Sayang is either a CEO of or was. Paul, Ropp, and Biasa. We’ll put the links down here below. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate it. Thank you, it was… It was very inspiring and insightful. So thank you. Thank you. Cool.