EPISODE 22:
How Bali Business Founders Can Attract Investors from the Middle East

00:32
Alright, so Lauren Martin, yeah, fresh off the boat from Dubai. Fresh to Bali. How’s things going? How are you experiencing the sunshine and all the rain we’ve been having? Yeah, it’s good. I’ve been here for nearly two months now. Just taking a break away from Dubai. As I’m sure you need. Yeah. Dubai is extremely hot over the summer, obviously as everyone knows. It’s quite nice to get away from that, have a refresh, brainstorm, and obviously then I luckily met you guys.

01:07
We bumped into each other. So what is it you actually do? Maybe touch on a little bit of your history, what industries you’ve come from and what you do now in Dubai. I think you’re setting up things here and working together. Tell us a bit about it and how it works and what kind of stuff. So I have had my agency, Eliter, for eight years now. It started in London and it’s now pivoted like every single agency out there. Probably pivoted about 100 times. And we brought it to Dubai about four years ago.

01:43
And we’ve had clients, pretty big real estate developers in Dubai, big huge family offices, institutional, prop tech. My background, I’ve consulted at quite a few big Fortune 500 companies. And I actually started my career. Don’t ask how this has happened into a PR agency, but I actually started my career in working for an oil trading company and was there for eight years. I’m sure you saw lots of interesting things go down there. Yeah, that was pretty fun. In central London, which is obviously at

02:22
that time was amazing. You’re from London. Yeah, from London originally. Oh, well, born and bred. Born and bred. Whereabouts? Greenwich. Oh, OK, beautiful. So southeast Londoner, you can’t mix us with the river. I was like on the Hackney shortage side. Oh, OK. So you are above the river there. There’s normally that divide. And then, yeah, and then I brought it to Dubai and then it just seemed to have just grew overnight, really. We had some really nice repositioning clients. We did some work with

02:57
Binghatti, which was pretty cool. And we’ve done quite a lot of like WEF in Davos positioning and capital raising and investor relations. So the World Economic Forum. Wow. Yeah, yeah. That was pretty fun. Conspiracy theorists are tuning in all of a sudden. Yeah, exactly. I’m not going to mention SPF, but I also did some work with that as well. OK, so Binghatti is a big developer. Yeah. What’s other? There’s a couple of other big ones. You have DAMAC Yeah. Yeah. EMAAR, yeah. Okay.

03:29
So when you say agency, like what? Because, you know, there’s all kinds of PRs are catch all Yeah. Like how. What is the specialization? You know, what are you doing really? Day in, day out. So we we actually specialize in reputation management and profiling. My biggest thing, we work with a lot of financial institutions, family offices, I mentioned, private equity firms, funds, hedge funds. And essentially now there’s there is a gap in the market with people in these particular industries

04:04
and actually grow in their profile. So we specialize directly in that. We’ve done a lot of profiling, reputation management in Europe, Dubai, Middle East, mainly focusing also on a global exposure. Our core offerings is the traditional profiling PR. We also have an AI tool, which is quite cool. So we’ve jumped on that bandwagon. Moving with the times. And that’s again, a reputation tool 24/7 scan on a reputation. Okay, so many reputation And events we do. Which is part of reputation.

04:44
I suppose. And the capital raising. So what are we focusing on in this podcast today? Positioning is your currency now. There is a fact of or there was a statistic which was 78% of investors and capital allocators will check the first 10 pages of Google on average to see where your name fits. So and it is an interesting point behind this is that if you’re not anywhere to be found or that there’s any type of bad press out there, you completely decrease your chance of any type of capital raising or allocation

05:22
just purely because somebody can’t find you. OK, so that’s it. So it’s I would say bridging the capital gap. Yeah. Between Middle East and let’s say Bali. Yeah. And all the things you need to do and things you should definitely avoid. Yeah. Boom. Okay, welcome back. Today we’re with Lauren Martin and we are specifically talking about investment inflows. So how to raise capital out of GCC or Middle East, Eastern countries. The things you need to do specifically like the would you call it like more of a soft

06:00
like is reputational soft measure? Is it because you’re obviously not dealing with like P&L and cash flow forecast, etc. So we look at like the more soft side of thing of raising capital, but specifically into Bali. So where Bali founders, developers, etc. are missing the opportunity of obtaining capital in GCC. Yeah. Yeah. Which I presume at the moment is one of the the most capital active regions in the world. Yeah. They are looking to allocate. So it’s how founders and developers can get their piece of that.

06:38
Yeah. So I think there’s a massive there’s a massive influx actually at the moment. And if you look from, say, especially last year, a lot of investors in the GCC are actually looking to invest in Asia now. There’s Europe. I am European, so I can say this. But Europe feels a little bit. Obviously, there’s so much going on in Europe. It’s not stable. It’s not a hugely stable market anymore to invest in. And Asia seems to be that present investment situation of where people can

07:10
actually invest and want to invest. It’s emerging, but it’s already almost got there, right? And then the next is probably going to be Africa. Africa is still that emerging market. It’s quite interesting to quite a lot of investors, especially not so much real estate at the moment, but more the commodity side. I think we’ve bridged the gap between Middle East and Asia. There was a big influx last year in Thailand and investors actually invested into Thailand and Bangkok. There is obviously a huge Middle Eastern

07:44
investors, Middle Eastern investors invested into Bangkok as in as in property or private equity. Yeah, mainly real estate. There is a lot of crypto as well within this this part of the world, which actually is quite a nice, a nice aspect. At the moment, it’s pumping. At the moment, it’s like it’s the buzzword. But especially for Bali, there’s a really lovely conversation now on Bali because a lot of people have done it. They’ve also been burnt. They’ve also been they’ve made insane returns,

08:20
probably more so than anywhere in the world. And there’s just that one thing, I think, that’s missing with it with the investment here, and it’s due diligence, having that everything ready. Like there’s you have one chance with these kind of investors. They are interested in this part of the world and they are especially interested in Bali. As long as you’ve got a really solid area within Bali, you know, you know, it’s going to there’s a strong ROI on that. But due diligence and profiling is going to

08:53
literally get you to the top. And that is your currency of actually getting those investors. OK, so what are they actually looking like? So due diligence, reputation. Yeah. If you had to break those down a little bit further, what are the sub points to each of those? So, you know, what does that actually entail on a little bit more of a deeper? Like if somebody is doing it, I don’t want to go into like a formal D.D. and what they’re looking for, etc. But, you know, maybe maybe bring that to light a bit more.

09:24
Like what are the aspects of that? So, for example, your your marketing and everything that you position yourself online is the first thing somebody is going to look at. That is your portfolio now, especially your social media. And social media is is it is actually it’s a slightly tricky one, actually, for profiling, because there’s there’s a fine line between privatizing your life and profiling your life. And there’s there’s a lot of a there’s actually a gap between the profiling side

09:57
and profiling, you need to be positioned in a certain way, which means press releases with solid publications is getting yourself out there in the in their world. It’s knowing your ICP literally down to a T that you know exactly what they’re like, what they’re reading, where they want you to be featured. So, for example, if you’re looking at the Middle Eastern investors, it would be quite beneficial to have yourself featured in Khaleej Times or Gulf News, even though you’re out of the country.

10:28
And it’s just, again, it’s building that trust. If you can get into those publications in the first place, they always do their due diligence. So you’ve already kind of got over one gap. You’ve already got over one step of that of that profiling and building that trust. The second thing is that people still buy people, especially in the Middle East. And there’s a massive, a massive part of building rapport, which is, again, slightly different to Europe, is that it is based on people

10:57
and it is based on building that relationship. If they already know or feel like they know you from an online presence, whether that’s an interview, whether that’s something like this, like a podcast, there’s already that instant trust if they can see that you actually know what you’re talking about and that you’re again, you can read people, right? People read people as much as they trust people. And I think that’s a big that’s a big part of this. How sanitized I mean, you talk

11:26
about social media like I see founders or developers or business people in Bali Their social media profiles, I would say a little bit more. I wouldn’t say controversial, but, you know, controversy sells and gets likes, et cetera, et cetera. So how sanitized are those kinds of investor types? Like it’s just difficult. It’s not a corporate world out here. It’s not like a sanitized Wall Street, et cetera. What are they expecting? Because I just noticed, you know, some of the personalities here.

11:58
It’s a pioneer. It’s a pioneer market. There’s personalities. There might be a bit of a disconnect there. Yeah, I think my biggest word for this is authentic. I think as long as somebody is authentic with their with their social media, their presence online, and I think that goes miles. And actually people can read if it’s authentic or not. If it’s the same. And this is this is no way by by any means, you know, slagging anybody’s social media off. But if it’s the exact same

12:31
templates, the exact same way that they’re speaking in every single video. And it’s like five other coaches or influencers. And it’s like a copy word for word of actually how they’re how they’re doing it, how they’re speaking. Then it’s not authentic. You’ve copied it from someone else. If your personality and you’re being authentic to actually how you portray yourself, then that’s a different story. So, yeah, you can be online. Yes, you can show your family.

13:02
Yes, you can show that you love surfing, you know, that you’re quite into spiritual activities or whatever that is. It’s just being authentic to it. And what about like a little bit of controversy or saying things that obviously get some people riled up? How how much appetite is there for that kind of personality? I think it’s a very conservative market. It’s very conservative, but it’s also the people that I’ve dealt with. And I’m talking on behalf of the people that

13:35
I have I have dealt with. And I and I work with very closely. They’re conservative, but they also are people, right? And they they buy into they buy into people. So actually, it’s not a harm if they’re again, if they’re being authentic. My only thing about controversial conversations is that. Politics is quite a tricky one to ever. Overcome. And I think this for your own, it’s not, you know, it’s free. It’s freedom of speech and also rightly so. But I think it’s also

14:09
just being mindful of that. Yeah, especially at the moment. Freedom of speech. The UK is doing very well with that at the moment. Yeah, exactly. I think there was like a few million people that turned up to a rally. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I saw that. Yeah, that was crazy. Yeah. And I think also, sorry, actually, on that point, it’s if you go to if you go to stuff like that, own it, be authentic about it. You know, that’s your view. Stand by it. Be authentic. Just there’s a way that you can portray your views.

14:41
And maybe not not every investor will appreciate it. And that’s fine also. But then they’re also probably not the investor for you. Yeah, exactly. But at least you kind of whittled those out at the beginning. OK. Yeah. So where would you say at the moment? Because there’s not a lot of middle. I think there’s a lot of Middle Eastern interest in Bali, but there’s not a lot of Middle Eastern capital. So where do you think that this like where they’re missing each other? I think it’s again, the trust.

15:08
You think it’s trust? I think it’s trust. You know, I think it’s maturity or legacy. I think no, I think a lot of it falls on trust because I think if you think of the longevity of certain funds that they invest in, there isn’t actually a longevity. Sometimes they only they’re only investing in a term for 18 months to five years. So the legacy part doesn’t quite come into it personally, I think, not in outside investments in their own family offices. Of course, legacy is the top main priority.

15:43
Investments not so much as ROI really is the main goal. I think the problem is it is the trust. And I think it’s in the Middle East. Due diligence is like the bill and end of a deal, really. And it’s the and it’s the steps that they go through to actually achieve that, you know, the simple stuff, KYC, AML, PEP, that they go. Those immediate checks. But I think the trust within maybe possibly the system, but also the way that you invest into the into the products. For example, if you’re building a villa and

16:21
you have somebody to try and you’re trying to get an investor to invest in that one particular villa versus investing in a PE fund that’s based in Bali and they they allocate that capital into where they see fit and it might just go into a villa. That’s two different situations. I could probably guarantee that they will take the latter and they’ll take the PE fund. They take the PE fund. Really? There’s a lot more trust. There’s a lot more stability in that. It’s a completely different ballgame than

16:51
just investing in one project that could be there could be gone tomorrow. You could say that about the PE fund also. You could. But then it’s a lot more diverse. Obviously, again, it would be a due diligence, but one particular villa, I think, would really turn them off. I also think it’s a lack of opportunity, a lack of investment opportunity. Yeah. There’s just not that much many options. I mean, you can buy you can buy a villa or off-plan or something, but that’s that’s pretty much it.

17:19
There’s no there’s no I mean, there’s we do it. The Kudungu fund is a private equity venture, but it’s not that many around. So I think they’re actually struggling to find opportunities to allocate. Yeah. And then when they do, I think it’s just usually they usually just fail because the DD falls over. Yeah. There’s not enough. There’s not enough maturity or experience. It’s a very pioneer kind of environment. So I think I think those old school measures on on

17:48
on placing an investment, I think will fail very quickly in a market like this. Yeah. I think sure reputation is important, but those family officers are very conservative with their placement. You know, they they don’t mind not making money, but they refuse to lose. Oh, gosh. Yeah, they they won’t lose. Yeah. Yeah, they just can’t. So if they only make a couple of percent, it’s fine. Yeah. So, you know, Bali is seen as a high risk environment. Yeah. A low, I wouldn’t say regulation, but it’s a

18:20
bit loose and easier on. And I think for investors, I can sometimes be tricky. Yeah. There is a really nice wave in the Middle East, though. And that’s the family offices. You can you can see that the generation shift. So now it’s the it’s like the granddads would start. If you look at the time frame of the Middle East, especially the UAE, obviously, it was it saw an independence. I think it was like 53 years ago. So you have the grandfathers has passed on to the sons. And now it’s the grandchildren that are

18:54
actually now taking over the funds, if not the second generation. And they are more open to certain riskier investments, purely the age, the kind of generation that they’re in and say a global impact, the exposure that they have themselves. And I think that’s a really lovely wave to tap into. Yeah, I think so. Well, I think they’ve been very exposed to crypto , new markets. And I think those old traditional markets are just not very attractive anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Buying a REIT in the UK

19:29
somewhere is just not. No. So you’ve worked with family offices. Ultra high net worth individuals, etc. I’m sure you’ve seen, you know, a couple of those kind of investments cross your desk. What are the red flags that they would immediately kind of look for? You know, you mentioned reputation and founder reputation. Yeah. What else is on that list that we think would happen in Bali more often than not? I think the instant and this is probably the biggest advice that I could have anyone

20:06
or give anyone, sorry, is have everything perfect and ready. Documentation compliance documents ready, you know, like that is the biggest turnoff for any type of investor, especially in the Middle East. They will have their compliance team check it. They check everything, you know, even if somebody purchases my AI tool, their compliance team checks it to see if it’s data ready, if it’s compliant with GDPR, ISO, like all of the types of licenses. And if you can get your compliance and your
20:41
back end and your data compliant with these types of licenses, and that’s you’ve already jumped about 10 hurdles. Again, it’s the trust. I mean, we’re just grappling with getting building licenses. Exactly. You don’t have to have the licenses. But I think even being compliant to those is a big step. Okay, so I’m doing a development and Middle East is of interest. Yeah. Where would I even start to look at like the kinds of things and licenses and building and sustainability and I don’t know

21:17
all those kinds of checks and measures that they would look at like what do I what do I even do? If I’m a say developer in Bali, where would I even start looking at the kinds of things and you know, all those little checks and balances and that the Middle Eastern investor would look at which would give me credibility. But I wouldn’t even know what they are. You know, I’m still dealing with getting my building license. Yeah. Nothing else. Like what other things are there? So there’s a company that I

21:47
actually work with exclusively and they’re the only company I’d ever trust with this. And they’re based in DIFC and they basically do they get you ready for that. What’s DIFC? Which it’s the Dubai International Financial Center. Oh okay, I have no idea. So it’s basically the world trade of New York versus Dubai. It’s the literal financial center. It’s really actually quite difficult to even get a license there, a company license. Oh, okay. But that particular company is called Solid

22:21
Future and they go in and they actually get you AI ready. But as part of that, they do your governance, you’re they check your people. What do you mean by AI reading? So AI is the is the new boom. I do know that. Most companies aren’t really even utilizing AI and everybody has to get used to it. Otherwise, you’re never going to you’re never going to get like consultants. Yeah, consultants. Okay, so onboarding AI tools and systems, etc. Well, the fact they actually scan the company.

22:52
So it’s a really interesting model and they scan the entire company and they do the governance, the people, the leadership, the processes, the tech, everything you have to have a consultant basically to actually get you ready. OK, as well as going with that. And I presume Dubai nothing’s cheap, but the upside is I suppose worth it. Yeah, for sure. It’s an investment that will stay with you forever. Right. Like if there also isn’t really a choice anymore, you actually have to have

23:26
your company ready for AI. And that does include policies, processes and governance now, especially. Okay, I know we chatted OK, I know we chatted about this earlier, but a legacy. Yeah. I think it’s it’s important. You know, how many how long you’ve been in the market, your experience in the market, et cetera, like Bali has zero legacy. Yeah. And how can Bali business people, developers, et cetera, how do they get around that? You know, they don’t have it’s all very new. I know you said tech sector is similar.

24:04
Yeah. I suppose you can weigh in on your historical experience outside of the Bali market, but there’s nobody’s done 23 developments here, like EMAAR or something, you know, so it’s first or second, general first or second. I think that’s one of the biggest hurdles. Like how do you see that? What’s the easiest way to overcome that obstacle? There’s a beauty of actually being honest about that it is a new market. And I think it’s actually embracing that you’re never going to have legacy or

24:33
generational existence in a country where it’s there’s so new, you know, there’s obviously the country is not new, but the developments are so new. I think it’s all about track record, even if you have got two to three developments, even if you’re on your first one, what architect are you using? There’s there’s always a way that you can leverage off of what you’re actually doing. I think it’s that is positioned in that. So what architects are you using? What’s their track record?

25:03
You know, have they built developments in Europe? Have they built developments in the Middle East? Have they done other developments in Asia? What ones have they done here? That’s one that’s a one side of it. The other side is who are they? Who are these people? Like, for example, if you’re in real estate now and you’re developing, but you was previously, I don’t know, in Fintech, leverage that, you know, that’s a lot more relatable than actually just saying you’ve you’ve started

25:34
developing villas in Bali. And then that’s your trust and that’s actually building the legacy. So reputation through association. Yeah, for sure. You know, nobody can do I’d be really surprised. Maybe I can be proved wrong, but nobody can go in and do every single part of a of a build or a real estate build. So using, you know, even the interior designers, there’s the villa that I’m staying in at the moment is beautiful. And it’s a European, it’s a Dutch does it’s Dutch designed.

26:06
And you can tell like it’s got the really beautiful wood and it’s got like the style of a Nordics. That’s what you can leverage off. And I suppose for business, it would be, you know, board of directors, your governance models, your partners, your processes. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But but also association. So, you know, especially board, I would think, like, non-execs and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. And I think that’s the best thing. Is, you know, where like where have your board of directors come from?

26:36
Have they come from London? Have they come from New York, Middle East? Where have they come from? And it’s actually leveraging that. And I think that’s what most people actually forget to do. You’ve hired this person based off of a resume, but you’re not leveraging their profile, which again is why it’s so important also as a company to actually leverage your board of directors to really grow your company. Again, it always comes down to profiling. Again, it’s also maturity.

27:05
I mean, I think most businesses have no idea even how board of directors even works. Let alone implement has one. So I think baby steps and just getting one, getting your board decks done and your governance processes and procedures. At least it starts getting everybody in the right working in the right direction so that maybe not tomorrow, but in three, four or five years, yeah, your models are there and your governance models are there and you’ve got a board and functions like board should.

27:33
Absolutely. This is growing up, I suppose, as part of being a new market to something that’s more mature. I actually think it’s the fun of it. There’s probably not another market like this, how it is at the moment. And I think that’s one of the most amazing, exciting opportunities. There also if you can be those types of developers or funds and you’re actually bridging the gap between the Middle East and Bali, especially, you’re going to be one of the first in the players in the in the game.

28:05
So if you can do that early on, you’re pretty much set. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that’s a that’s a lovely gap that’s not actually being utilized enough at the moment. And I think a lot of businesses are close. You know, they’re close to just getting where Bali is just at the tipping point where it’s just attractive enough for like even some European family officers or institutions that would start really looking at it. We just got to get our act together. Yeah. Well, let’s put it this way.

28:34
Everybody wants to get their money out of Europe. So they’ve got to put it somewhere. Exactly. That includes Middle Eastern investors, plus also Europeans. Yeah. And it’s a lot of it’s gone into the Middle East. Well, where’s Middle East? Is it all oil money? Like, where’s it? Where’s all the cash coming from these days? I suppose, you know, in that market, was it self generating now, I suppose? Yeah, very different markets, actually. Obviously, back in the day, it used to a lot

29:03
of a lot of it used to come from commodities, forex derivatives, that kind of that kind of world, the financial world and investments. Now it has changed. Crypto is huge, especially in Dubai. It’s there’s a lot more regulations. It’s a lot more of a trusted currency now in the Middle East. And it’s also coming from so many different ways, like fintech, AI, this huge in the Middle East, there’s a massive government push on AI. They’re teaching it to kids in the schools as like

29:38
a subject that they have to learn now. They also have a government backed campus. The capital is coming from all shapes and sizes. Yeah, I suppose they’re kind of using it. What they’re looking to invest in will be reflective of that. So I mean, they’re going off the tech, they’re going off the AI. Yeah, real estate is huge in the Middle East. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you’ve had real estate boom. It’s been incredible. I was there when a couple of months ago, but before that, I hadn’t been there for 15, 20 years.

30:08
It’s crazy. It’s nuts. The changes. Yeah, it’s next level. OK, so real estate, I mean, sure, it’s attractive, but probably not as attractive as some of the tech sectors. But but how is the real estate market there? Because as soon as if that real estate market had to come off the boil a little bit or just had to not get a little bit oversaturated or, you know, ROIs weren’t as good. I mean, there’s thousands and thousands of apartments are presumed being sold. They would definitely

30:40
start to look elsewhere. Or do you think the Dubai property market is just because the population is growing so fast because everybody’s trying to escape, you know, Europe and America? Where do you see that going in the next five years? I think the Dubai, especially the UAE market, and I talk about Abu Dhabi, Ras al Khaimah and Dubai specifically. There is a massive boom and the projects that they launch, they’re very, very clever on how they launch projects versus how they launch developments.

31:12
What I mean by that is if you look at Ras al Khaimah you have an insane boom at the moment with developments because of the casino. In Dubai, you have the new Palm being built. So now there’s another boom. So they’re very clever with how they piece certain events around developments, especially real estate. The beauty of it is is that people still keep a lot of their cash in the Middle East, but they also want diversity. A lot of these guys are seasoned investors. You know, even if they’re in their 30s,

31:45
they’ve been investing in because their parents have invested for their entire life. You know, they’re extremely smart people. They do want to diversify their portfolios. Europe was obviously a massive player in their in their portfolios. They don’t do that anymore. A lot of them, they are investing in Asia just purely out of diversity. Dubai is quite a safe market. Surprisingly, it is actually quite a safe market to invest in. You can’t have all your eggs in one basket. You can’t have it all there.

32:15
It’s also a nightmare. As in having all your eggs in one basket or? Yeah, for sure. Say, for example, if there was, I don’t know, there’s a lot of wars going on at the moment, which are actually quite close. All you need is something to happen. Well, I mean, it’s close. I mean, Qatar and, you know, yes, that whole thing. So it’s diversifying a portfolio and an actual solid seasoned investor will always do that. Anything else you want to touch on specifically, like Bali specific,

32:47
anything you’ve seen that you think would be great for business people or etc, to jump on the back of, you know, that you see as a gap. I think my biggest thing for Bali would be find your USP. What makes you different to the hundreds of villas that are being built or apartments here and find your niche in that? What makes you different? What’s actually going to attract somebody from the Middle East? And I think taking time, you know, we are all quite I’ve done this before. I have my own business.

33:24
I look at my business. I think it’s amazing. But if you actually go in the depths of it, everybody has cracks in their business and just finding out and navigating what actually makes you different versus the hundreds of other villas or the hundreds of other developments. Focus in on that. And that’s what separates you from everyone else. And then obviously all the other things we discussed, you know, transparency, credibility, personality, you know, all those kinds of all those kinds of things.

33:55
Yeah. OK, I mean, not that we have a lot of Middle Eastern viewers, but I’m sure one or two would would pick this up. Like if they were going, OK, I agree. I think Asia is a great place to look at. You understand Bali market. They might have zero idea. You know, they would look at it with certain tinted glasses. Like what would you say the mistakes that they’re making in looking at Bali and going what something’s turning them off or something? And where would you say, you know, give them

34:23
a little bit of more leeway because they are new and fresh and a pioneer kind of environment? OK, I did this before I came to Bali, and I’m not ashamed to admit this. On Google. Bali real estate investments, and then every single thing comes up. That’s probably the worst thing you can do because you literally get piled with a load of different things. It’s overwhelming. You’re not actually seeing where you’re going with this. I think the biggest thing is actually just come in here and navigating it on foot,

34:58
which is actually what we did, which is how I met you guys. And I think actually come in here and meeting people yourself and actually see in the village yourself. I think that’s the only way that you can actually start. I think from from a retail buyer B2C, you know, that’s that’s goes without saying. But if you’re looking a little bit more up the food chain, family offices or small institutional, what are the first steps that they could take? Maybe I don’t know. Yeah, I think I think the

35:26
first steps is meeting people. I genuinely, I genuinely mean that. I think if you look at the Middle East, they’re very, very rarely taking a zoom call if you’re in the Middle East. They want you. They want to meet you. I mean, that’s why we packaged and sent Omri. Yeah, exactly. To Dubai for exactly the reason. Because it was difficult. It was really difficult to secure. But when you do, it’s easy. It’s amazing. Yeah. And it’s funny. This is actually what Omri and I spoke about the other day, is

35:58
you have to you have to be there on foot. They literally they’ll just say, OK, no worries. We’ll see when you’re back. I’ve been here for nearly two months. And I’ve got people that I’ve worked with for like nearly 10 years. They still refuse to have a zoom call or it’s like a quick “Hi, yeah, you’re okay? What’s wrong?” They want to see you in person. That’s straight. Why do you think that is? I think it’s a cultural thing. I think it’s also a respect.

36:28
OK. And I think it’s it’s actually it’s just how they do business. It’s like London in the 80s. Well, London in the 80s, you didn’t have any alternative. Yeah, exactly. I think actually it’s quite it’s quite a great way. It’s a nice way to do business. You’re keeping it personalized. Yeah, yeah, no, I prefer it. It’s just sometimes a little bit more. It is more practical, but you’re going to fly around the world like we did in the 80s. Yeah, but we don’t know

36:57
if that’s the way it is. That’s the way it is. So I mean, and do you think like things like expo? Like, OK, so say I wanted to go and rustle up some business in Dubai. What do I even do? I get off the airport, you know, go to a coffee shop for my hotel and then what, you know? Network events Network events, so is that a big thing? Yeah, huge thing. Events are and if you could say it’s one of the services we actually provide and we curate an entire room of say 20 to 30 investors depending on your type of investment.

37:33
And we bring your perfect ICP in that room and then it gives you a stage to actually introduce yourself and kind of pitch the product, but without pitching like and not like the salesy cringe way More like a fireside chat, let’s say that. So not like a TED talk. No, not like a hundred year TED talk. Nobody wants to listen to that. And that’s actually a great way because you get the perfect people selected in a room and they’re listening. They’re already there because they understand the product

38:05
or they know the product itself and they’ve got an interest and then they’re there and then you can actually build that relationship off of that. What you do after that event is probably the most crucial part of it. If you’re if you just leave it and expect them to come to you, they’re never going to do it. It’s not the way the culture works. It’s for the schmoozing. It’s follow up. It’s making sure that you’re in the top of their mind. It’s it’s actually it’s

38:30
a bit more sophisticated, but it is becoming way more Western. As I mentioned, there’s a casino being built in Ras al Khaimah I mean, that’s like completely new and different. But actually, there are bars, there are places that you can meet. One of the biggest things are private members clubs, and they’re quite new to the Middle East, especially Dubai. But they are actually a really great place to meet people. Like the Soho House kind of thing. Yeah, Soho House isn’t there yet. But you have Arts Club,

39:00
Capital Club and a few others. So what are those like a more like health and then so or just bars, restaurants. Yeah, bars, restaurants, meetings. But conferences are probably also the best place you can meet these people. Family office events are the probably the best in Dubai and Abu Dhabi. OK, and they they throw their own events or is it facilitators or third parties like yourself? It’s facilitated. Yeah. Okay, okay. Any other wise words of wisdom that you can bestow onto the Bali market? Well, I think that’s it.

39:33
Yeah, I don’t think yeah, I don’t think I mean, I’ve spoke so much. I’ll probably be fed up with listening to it. No, no, no, no. It was short and sweet and to the point. And I think I think a lot of people appreciate the message, maybe a little bit uncertain of how to do it. Yeah. You know, and what’s involved. And it is a lot of work. Yeah. On the D.D. side, reputational is probably a little bit easier. But building that kind of voice is important. But it takes time, time and

40:05
a lot of effort. It does. So, yeah, I mean, I think if anybody wants to learn more or have more detailed insights on how to do it, and you know, it is a service that you provide. Yeah, we’ll put your link below and yeah, subscribe, follow. I think we’re doing another podcast next week, which will be really interesting. We’re still finalizing the topics, but yeah, keep in touch. And any questions or if you want anything, podcast ideas, please just put in the comments and we’ll for sure get back to you.

40:41
Thanks so much, yeah. Thank you. Thanks so much.